What new challenges have emerged to the family in the past few years? How is the family doing today versus in the past? What biblical principles must Christians keep in mind when thinking about the family today? These are a few of the questions we ask Jim Daly, president of Focus on the Family. He discusses radical shifts in the modern family as well as gives practical ideas on how to pass on the faith and engage others in the culture who view the family differently.


Jim Daly is president of and host of its daily show, heard by more than 6 million listeners a week on nearly 2,000 radio stations across the U.S. The show has been honored as Program of the Year by the National Religious Broadcasters (NRB). In March 2022, he celebrated his 33rd anniversary with the ministry.



Episode Transcript

Sean: What are the biggest challenges facing the family today? How can Christians best navigate these challenges? And what biblical teachings are most important to keep in mind today when it comes to families? These are some of the questions we're going to explore today with our guest, Jim Daly—author, president of Focus on the Family, friend of Biola. I'm your host, Sean McDowell.

Scott: I'm your co-host, Scott Rae.

Sean: And this is the Think Biblically podcast brought to you from Talbot School of Theology, Biola University. Jim, you've been the president of Focus on the Family for two decades. How? I mean, that's an incredible thing. So, I've seen the family shift in my own family, but talk to us from, kind of, a 30,000 foot view perspective—how you've seen the American family, and maybe beyond, kind of shift during that time.

Jim: Yeah, it just kind of makes me laugh thinking, wow, it's been that long. [laughs] Now, there's so many things, Sean, Scott, that are happening. It's, you know, when you look at it…let me give you this data point, because I think this really paints the picture. Get this. I was born in ‘61. I'm much older than you guys, but in 1960, 88% of men [ages] 25 to 35 were married. 88%, 25 to 35. Today, that number's 30%.

Sean: Wow!

Scott: That’s quite a drop-off.

Jim: How about that for a mindblower? I thought it was big, because when I looked at it in 2005, it was 50%. So, the real dip in that demographic—these are men aged 25 to 35—really went down after 2005. 2005, the number was roughly 50%. Today, it's about 30%. So, it shows you family formation is just not occurring. People are living together. People are having children together without marriage, et cetera. But the idea of getting married, kind of the traditional family, has now become kind of the minority family structure in the culture. And all the science is showing you that is not good for the culture in the future.

Scott: I think some time ago, the stats were that you got the over 50% threshold of single adults being head of households. I mean, that was probably a decade ago, when that stat came out—

Jim: I think it's a combination. Yeah, I believe the numbers I have are correct, but, you know, typical, two-parent biological mom and dad home represents about 40% of households now. All other types—single parent father, single parent mother, stepfamilies, et cetera—they represent 60% of households today. So again, it's kind of breathtaking, especially when you look at people like Brad Wilcox at the University of Virginia, a sociologist who basically has done incredible research to reinforce the fact that the best place for a child to grow up is in an intact two-parent family. They just excel at most things. Now, I came from a single parent home, and for the single parents listening, there's hope. There's something called Jesus. [laughs] And when Jesus can get involved in a 15-year-old's life, like in my case, it turns that tide. But think of how many people don't fall into a relationship with the Lord and are out there scraping and fighting just to get by. They don't finish high school. They don't finish college. They don't have a future in so many ways. So, that's the irony of what's happening with the family. Back to your point, Sean, the decline has been steady, is becoming more rapid, and I think more of an issue today than ever.

Scott: So, Jim, what are some of the most common issues that your team has asked to address, kind of over and over and over again? Are there a couple of those that sort of rise to the top?

Jim: Yeah, I think you could probably close your eyes and just think for a minute. What do you think those would be? And you're probably going to hit it. For us—in 1977, when Dr. Dobson started Focus on the Family, coming out of USC right there in Southern California as a child development expert—the big issues were strong-willed children, discipline with kids, how to keep a marriage generally together, those typical things. Bedwetting, thumb sucking. Those were the letters or the phone calls we would receive from parents, how do we deal with these issues? Today, it's gender dysphoria, depression, suicidal ideation. I mean, the catastrophe of children today is so much higher. And so, that's what we deal with. One of the most common things that we deal with here at Focus on the Family now is, what do I do with my LGBTQ child or my grandchild, in that case? So, you know, they become more complex issues, typically around sexual orientation, sexual identity.

Sean: That's really helpful. I was talking with Cliff and Stuart Knechtle recently and asking if the questions have changed over the decades they've been ministering on college campuses. And Cliff's done it since the 80s. He goes, the questions haven't really changed, but the amount of depression changes how people process it. So, I could see that within the family being such a big issue. When I deal with students, a lot of the LGBTQ and sexuality questions are some of the top questions I get in Q&A sessions as well. Now, I'm curious, biblically—and I wonder if this is the same now as when Focus on the Family started—what are some of the key biblical teachings that you think are, just, most important for Christians to keep in mind as we think about the family?

Jim: Yeah. And let me just wrap that other question up with something very critical, in my opinion. I've really done a lot to reach out to the LGBTQ community. I have a great friendship with one of the leading attorneys in that group that helped bring about Obergefell. We've had a great relationship and friendship. And I would just say that the thing for us as Christians when we're dealing with sexual orientation issues and all the other…is just a steady hand of staying the course of biblical truth. Don't get upset. This isn't a battle that you need to win. The Lord cares for these people. It's not a super sin. You know, those of us that are heterosexually driven have our own issues when it comes to attractions of the opposite sex. So, I think we need to remain calm and know that God has a sexual ethic for us. And that's what He's requiring of us, no matter what our deviation from that is. And that way, it gives us more of a heart for those people that are going through this tumultuous attraction that many of us don't even understand. So, just to make that statement, and I'm sure there's many people on college campuses, including Biola, that are getting a little confused about how do we think about this as a Christian, would be my guess.

Sean: No, we don't have anybody confused here, just for the record, Jim. But go ahead.

[laughter]

Jim: By the way, I love Biola. Barry Corey is a good friend, and what a wonderful Christian university president he is. I wish my two boys would have gone there. I couldn't talk them into it, but almost. But getting back to the family question…so, I think here's the big message when it comes to what can we learn out of the Scripture about family. The Bible is full of examples of dysfunctional family. [laughs] It's like, it's the norm. Adam and Eve. Adam blames Eve for disobeying God. Cain and Abel, of course, the sibling rivalry where somebody ends up dead. Joseph and his brothers. You know, his brothers sold him into slavery. These are great examples of the pain of family. It was never perfect. I think even the Lord, you know…I think of the Lord as the father of Adam and Eve, and his teenagers kind of went off the deep end. And so, I think one of the things to calm us down as Christian parents particularly is, things are going to happen. Our children have free will. What we have to do is nurture that core in them about why we believe what we believe and then live it, right? And I think that's so critical to who we are as Christians.

Scott: Jim, let me play the skeptic for a moment, if I might.

Jim: Of course.

Scott: Throughout the Scripture, you know, Jesus was single, Paul was single. You know, single people are made in the image of God in the same way that married people are. In fact, Paul sometimes says that singleness is preferable to marriage. I think the term he uses is “more expedient.” And yet, you know, lots of folks claim that the American church has made an idol out of marriage and just missed the boat on serving single adults well. Well, what would you say to that allegation? Is there any merit to that?

Jim: [laughs] I'm laughing because just Sunday…I don't know if this is the Lord bringing this back around to my attention. But to your question, just Sunday in our church, David Grothe, our associate pastor, was preaching up at New Life here in Colorado Springs. He was talking about how we make an idol out of marriage. I was taking some of that pretty personally, because he knows I'm in town. He knows I go to the church. So, half the time I thought, he's talking right to me. You know that pastor that says, “Do you have a problem with alcoholism?" [laughs] So, anyway, this is kind of funny you should ask that question, because I did spend a lot of time Sunday afternoon thinking, okay, why am I feeling so sensitive about this? Here's the first thing. Yeah, Paul makes all those assertions that, you know, it's easier to stay single. I think any of us that are married would say, yeah, it would have been easier to stay single. But at the same time, God honors marriage. He created us for marriage, too. And it's almost like we've got the reverse going now. There's like this thing that somehow, somebody's lifted up marriage as an idol, and now we’ve got to tear that idol down. I'd be very careful about this, because both are fine. That's the point that Paul's trying to make. If you're married, stay married, and make sure that you live in your marriage in a Christlike way. Honor your wife, honor your husband, et cetera. If you're single, hey, it's going to be a lot easier. Here's the thing that I've learned. I think both theologically as well as practically, marriage does something really interesting for us. We enter into marriage thinking, oh, this is bliss. She's so much like me. And then you quickly find out at some point—a year down the road, two years down the road, the seven-year itch, as it's known—man, this person really irritates me. And what somebody really wise once told me, the guy that did our marriage counseling, he said, "Marriage is a way to make you more like Christ." Okay, how do you do that, Lord? To make us more selfless so that we can become more like Him. I think it's one of the most powerful tools that God has in His arsenal, if we're healthy-minded about it, to get us to a better place spiritually. And it's true. You can succeed as a single in the church, and you should. Singleness is fine, as Paul said. It's great. It's actually easier in my opinion. But if you get married, what's the purpose of that marriage? I think it's to learn to be more like Christ in a very intimate relationship where you have to become selfless. And that works against our flesh like nobody's business. And I think marriage…one of the reasons in the church we're having such great divorce rates right now, although it's coming down, but one of the reasons it's historically been high is we're so me-focused, even as believers, that the culture has seeped into us that we don't even know perhaps the purpose here is to become more selfless like the Lord, and that He's teaching us these things—how to give, how not always to get your way, how to be a companion to the person who is the closest to you and how to lay your life down for her. It just does not come naturally.

Sean: I know at the heart of what you do at Focus on the Family is to help parents and grandparents pass on their faith to their kids and to their grandkids. I've been studying this, thinking about this, writing on this for decades. And if I was going to sum up what I think the data shows, and you can't make this too formulaic, but if there were three steps, one, it would be, model a faith that kids find attractive. If you're not modeling, it doesn't matter what you say. So, model. Second, build close, intimate relationships with your kids. Intimate relationships, warm relationships. And third, talk to your kids about faith issues. Teach them how to think about the world from a Christian perspective. So, modeling, relationship, and then spiritual conversation. Agree, disagree, add anything? What do you think are the core components that you want to instill and equip parents with to pass on their faith?

Jim: No, that's well said. I'm ready to move to the next question.

[laughter]

Jim: You said it so well. I think part of the battle…this is what's really hard. Again, this is why marriage and parenting both work to make us better, if we approach it with that attitude. I was just talking to my two boys the other day. One is 24, the other is 22. And so, they're adults now, and we're having a chit chat and talking about life and faith and all those things. And they have a firm faith in Christ, but there's some things in the church that they really are troubled by. And as we're talking about it, one of the things I have tried to do as a parent is to open that invitation to say, where am I failing? Where am I being a hypocrite? Because I may not always see that. I need your eyes on me to know where my blind spots are. But to invite your 17, 18, 20 year old to do that, you’ve got to have some courage, because they know you. I think in some ways, they know you better even than your spouse, to be honest with you, because your spouse and you have a different relationship—courtship, all that. You’ve got the history. Then your kids come along, and they grow up, and they've seen everything—sometimes at a little bit of a distance, but intimately—in your home. Your issue with anger, your issue with whatever it might be, prevarication, twisting the truth slightly to get what you need, watching, perhaps, you manipulate your spouse or their mother or their father. So, they get a really weird, insightful stadium seat to your life. And so, that's one thing I would add to that, is invite them to talk with you, to help mentor. One of the best things my 24 year old, Trent, said to me the other day, he said, "Dad, one of the things I'm enjoying so much right now is how our relationship has changed from parent-child to peer to peer adult." And he goes, "You're always going to be my dad, but I just feel like we can talk about anything." And back to your point, Sean, about that relationship being at the core. The biggest concern I have with some of the Christian parents that I've encountered through Focus is we do expect a formula that if we do A, B, and C, we get the output D. It does not work that way, everybody. There's predictive models. You want to set a good environment. You want to take everybody to church and learn the truths of Scripture. Those are all good things. But if you're not living it, you're not being a witness for your kids first and foremost, they're going to smell that. They're going to know it. They're going to know it's not true for you. And that's going to be a really difficult journey for them, because now they're unsure what to believe. If what you say is you are a Christian and you believe these things, but they don't see you living it…not perfectly, but not living it steadily, and reinforcing that, and when it's not perfect to confess that. One of the best things I ever did as a parent was to always say to my boys, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. I was too aggressive when I talked to you about that. Or, I said something that was too sharp. I remember the first time I did that to my five-year-old, Trent. He smiled at me and I said, “Why are you smiling?” He said, "I didn't know parents had to apologize." But man, keep that going. And I'm no perfect parent, but what do you appreciate? Do you think, you know, Jesus, when He talks about the golden rule, did He intend that to be pointed at the parent-child relationship as well? I think so. Treat your child the way you'd want to be treated. Right? And I think your relationship will be so much stronger when you hit those big issues that may come in the teens or the 20s. You need the relationship—to your point, Sean—so that you can still be an influence in that child's life without being the decision maker.

Scott: Yeah, I concur on that. My kids are late 20s and early 30s. And it's a pretty sweet place to be as a parent, where you connect with them as peers. It's pretty nice.

Jim: Yeah, I enjoy it.

Scott: Jim, one of the things that is new, I think, that parents face today that I didn't face when my kids were growing up, and, Sean, you probably didn't face much either, is the prevalence of screens and technology and social media, not to mention things like artificial intelligence. How do you help families navigate this maze of technology and the options that they have to make decisions about it for their kids in the midst of, just, huge cultural pressure not to do anything about it?

Jim: You know, generally what I love about Focus, and what attracted me t